Talk:GCPP:Proposal-Snook
This page is intended to keep track of bug fixes, requests, and ideas for a GCPP work in progress. Please do not edit it if you are not the designer or programmer. Ideas and suggestions should be posted in the feedback thread.
Contents
Snook
Known Bugs
Possible Bugs
Being Tested
EVERYTHING :p
Requests
Thank ye :D
On the "List"
Ideas
Everything has been tested and seems to be working satisfactorily (but I will keep checking :D) - Patetch 09:20, 10 June 2007 (PDT)
For a round 3 version, we could try to use the kind of context sensitive tips that are being used in Mackerel now. When the game starts on level 1, the first tip could be to click a bolt of cloth, and the second could be to click the wall and place it so that the bolt will go to a workbench, etc. Not a fixed tutorial with an enormous amount of words that will always give the same score. On level 2 we could assume the player had mastered the level 1 tips. Concentrate on the easiest levels just getting fabric to a bench then item to hanger and from hanger to customer first. If we have score animations for good destinations, that will help distract the player from the red faced customers.
Another idea for level 1. The player is concentrating on just making random items and placing them on the hangers. Three very patient customers are waiting. When an item is placed on a hanger that would make a customer happy, he says "Oh! I want that one!" If the item would make two customers happy, then they can even argue a bit. When this happens, the play will get tips on placing the customer at a counter and getting the item to the customer. After several rounds of playing level 1, I would think most people would start grasping the idea of why a customer would want a particular item, and start trying to purposely make items that would make the waiting customers happy.
Questions from Pletoo
Questions from LordKalvan
Scoring Tweaks
Everything has been tested and seems to be working satisfactorily (but I will keep checking :D) - Patetch 09:20, 10 June 2007 (PDT)
Current Scoring
Each turn
- +1 for every footprint when 'Go' is clicked (paths created)
- -1 for any worker placed at a bench without creating anything
- -5 for clicking 'Go' or 'Restock'
Walls cost points to place but also earn points every time they turn a path.
- L and | cost 1 point and earn 4 (so a gain of 3 points.)
- T, S, and Z cost 5 points and earn 7 (using only one corner gets 2 points but using both gets 9 total.)
- + costs 6 but earns 7 (using only one corner gets 1 point, using 2 corners gets 8, but using 3 gets 15.)
Customers
- Smiling customer: 20 * combo-counter ("Yay! I got what I wanted!")
- Neutral yellow customer: 10 points ("I got what I wanted but had to wait a bit.")
Red faced customers have penalties that scale with the difficulty level.
- Neutral red customer ("I didn't want this.") 1 1 2 3 5 6 7
- Frowning red ("I had to wait in line for THIS?!") 2 2 5 7 10 12 15
- Large frowning red (got mad and left without an item): 2 2 5 10 15 20 25
Misc
- -2 for every square crossed if a bolt is reshelved or clothing rehung.
- -5 if the space was occupied when reshelving bolts or hanging clothing (plus loss of item)
- +15 if bolt, spool, and uniform match or clash (does not include black.)
- + for cookies given to the workers (scaled by level and 'freshness.'
- - for wasted cookies
- Stepping on scissors, point first: -10
- Stepping on scissors, handle first: +10
- + for good destination
- - for bad destination
Closing shop
- -5 for each unshelved bolt of clot
- -5 for each item of clothing not on a hanger
- -5 for each bolt still in the storeroom (not on shelf yet) if the "Closing soon!" sign hasn't shown yet
- -5 for each customer who is red
- -5 for each customer at a counter
- -5 for any black clothing
- -5 for any black bolts on the shelf
Foot value: Start with 40 points. Deduct 2 point for each tile crossed, down to minimum of 5 points. If a "good destination" is reached, the value number of points is added to the score. If the foot came directly from a worker to a customer, a bonus of 20 points is added. If a "bad desination" is reached, the item being carried is lost, and the value of the foot is increased by 20, then is treated as a penalty (so subtract from score).
Ideas that have been set aside for now
- I just uploaded another version of snook. Any turn that does not produce a smiling customer breaks the combo. Any customer getting a damaged item breaks the combo (even if by chance he's smiling). On levels with 4 customers (8+) any turn that does not produce two smiling customers breaks the combo. Other combo breakers are wasting an item, and getting the "bad destination" message. ("bad destination" won't hurt the ults though) --Tcarr 22:15, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- At the moment the only way items are being damaged is by colliding with another item, correct? That does not happen all that often actually, at least not enough for me to actually count squares :P We could have the bolt that gets exchanged with the black one go back to the shelf damaged, items that replaced others (such as an item being hung up on an occupied hanger)or clothing items that pass over wildcards... any or all of these could result in damaged goods. I would think we would want it to happen enough to be a factor but not so often that it is frustrating or impossible to get the combo. That will be something to think about this week :)
- One thought I had pretty early on: Adding a 4th color to the higher levels with a slight twist, a random "fad" that might dictate which color / pattern combinations could be used. I think these could add a whole lot, sometimes it would limit clothing choices but it would also open up some bonus opportunities, but I don't know how complicated it would be. It could be that a fad HAD to be followed to get happy customers or instead it could be a way for extra points if you did follow them. Some examples:
- "Green should never be worn with red" (if they came in with both you should change one of those, but if they came in wearing one of them, you couldn't use the other color for their outfit.)
- "Yellow polka dots are hideous" (a score penalty for giving them some?)
- "Blue and green should always go together" (bonus if you can get this combination, penalty if they had this combination and the item you give them takes it away)
- "Fashionable pirates wear red stripes" (bonus for giving, penalty for taking it away)
I like the concept but I am undecided on whether it would make the game too complex (some folks already think it is.)Patetch
- If, in the future we decide hangers don't get enough love, the three sewing pattern pieces could actually act as a "teleport" (not very good with the analogy, I know) that instead of going on to the worker, just automatically creates the correct item and places it on a random empty hanger.
- Colors having value (cheap, mid-range, expensive) which would affect probability and score.
- Should restock also affect what is on the hangers?
- I wouldn't think that would fit the analogy, any more than it changing the customers.--Tcarr 23:26, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
- Well maybe there was some extra premade stuff in the back as well? It makes more sense to me than restocking the workers :) (I tell myself those workers spent their shift restocking so they didn't have to do any sewing and then it makes sense :p) hee-heee - we can leave it alone.
- I wouldn't think that would fit the analogy, any more than it changing the customers.--Tcarr 23:26, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
Completed Bugfixes
I will keep the completed bugfixes here (I don't think it is necessary to keep everything else) just in case they need to be referred to later.
- Items being reshelved when they sould be bad destination.
The first setup will result in a bad destination (which it should) but the second setup will just hang the item back up on the hanger (shouldn't without a wall.) This happens with bolts as well, except they always reshelve unless there is another one already there.
- This should be fixed now, for both hangers and bolt shelves.--Tcarr 15:47, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- Bolt sent up into the out going path just sits on the board with a 6 instead of being a bad destination.
- I thought that "oops I forgot to put a worker there!" would want to be able to add the worker next cycle. I can make it bad if you like though.
- This should now be fixed. (outgoing part of workbench, not ingoing) --Tcarr 15:47, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- I thought that "oops I forgot to put a worker there!" would want to be able to add the worker next cycle. I can make it bad if you like though.
- Clicking rotate sometimes causes a zero and a wall to show up in the lower left corner
- I still can't figure out what triggers it, but it seems to disable being able to click rotate without a wall in hand.
- I am not sure if this is all tied together, but right after that the 'closing soon' message did not clear when I clicked 'prepare board' (never had that happen before)
- Also, once this has happened, this message pops up if you click on the first half of rotate: (this same message pops up if you try to return a wall to the left of the number instead of the right.)
- error while observer executing PATCH-AT in procedure PROCESS-CLICK
- called by procedure LISTEN-FOR-MOUSE
- PLABEL-OF expected this input to be an agent but got NOBODY instead.
- (halted execution of Prepare board)
- Uploaded a new version, that will at least not give *that* particular error message. Once you get an error message that says "halted execution of...", all sorts of bugs happen.
- Seems to be working now. -Patetch
- Clothing item bounced off the bolt wall and ended up at a counter with a "good destination."
- "Bolt wall"?? What's a bolt wall?--Tcarr 13:56, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
In testing collisions I had the red bandana and green bolt collide. The bandana hit the wall were the bolts are shelved (which is what I meant by 'bolt wall.') It was dropped below the grid then shifted over to the counter, giving me a 'good destination' score.
Same setup, this shows where the bandana ends up (which by the way did NOT have a counter in that spot.) So far, this only happens in the bottom row, the other rows have it properly being lost. It does also happen if there is not a bolt in that row (so no collision required.) It does not matter whether the clothing is coming from the hanger or the bench (but it does properly reshelve a bolt that ends up there.) Also, it only happens if the clothing is coming from the right, rather than coming down the column (unless there is a wall placed that would cause it to turn and go out the left edge.)
- Noooooo! Turning off the footprints from the bolts and hangers has stopped working. I have even seen that nasty double-print back (but not on the workers this time.) It just started with this most recent update - I was playing before without problems and just refreshed the browser when I saw the note about one of the bugs being fixed.
- /e sighs. New version uploaded, and this should be fixed. Odds are good I broke something else though.--Tcarr 04:37, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Unable to have only a black footprint If a bolt is left at a bench (forgot to place the worker) and next turn you place a worker there and set the footprint, but don't have any others set it will tell you not to forget to place the footprints. This is not likely a game scenario - most people would have other paths but it could come up if it were the end of the game and there was nothing else to do.
- Sometimes a customer is angry at the item I give him on level 7. This needs more testing. I haven't noticed it on easier levels. I'm not sure if it's a bug, or just me booching. --Tcarr 15:55, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Need to test customers being satisfied or not is correct, on levels 7+. Particuarly test with black items.--Tcarr 15:56, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- I think this is fixed now. It was happening when one customer was getting an item at the same time as another customer was departing and passing the same spot.--Tcarr 18:39, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- I have played 3 level 7 games, using black items as often as possible, and never saw an unexpected result. -Patetch
- I think this is fixed now. It was happening when one customer was getting an item at the same time as another customer was departing and passing the same spot.--Tcarr 18:39, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Clothing reached hanger This one does not affect gameplay (I think) but I noticed if you pick up a hanger item and set it back you receive this message. It is probably minor but I figured I would mention it just in case it is part of the other hanger issues we have been facing.
- We will have to put up with that message. --Tcarr 04:58, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- Putting an item on an occupied hanger.Possibly related to below bug but if something is already on the hanger and you try to place another one there, the result is inconsistent - sometimes the original item disappears, sometimes it is the new one, and sometimes they both do.
- This appears to happen only (same round? next round?) that customers walk away mad. I'm testing a bugfix for it.--Tcarr 15:31, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Bugfix uploaded, please test. The same boards that I saw it before the bugfix were refusing to make the "closing soon" go away when I clicked "Prepare board" too. I'm not seeing that behavior any more, but it was pretty rare before, and I'm certain it was linked to customers walking away mad. --Tcarr 15:53, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- It appears to be correctly replacing the item with the new one now, however, I noticed it gives a 'good destination' score which is better than the 'wasted item' penalty (which is also given.) What would be a good solution for this? - Patetch 19:26, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- I thought that was the way it was supposed to be. The new item did reach a good destination, but it also wasted an item. We could make the wasted item penalty higher if you like.--Tcarr 04:58, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- Hmmm... an item being reshelved has not travelled very far so the wasted penalty is more, the main one I was looking at was an item coming from a bench to the hanger, then it is worth quite a bit more than the penalty. I just don't know if we need a little balance there, but if it is intentional then that is fine.
- I thought that was the way it was supposed to be. The new item did reach a good destination, but it also wasted an item. We could make the wasted item penalty higher if you like.--Tcarr 04:58, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- It appears to be correctly replacing the item with the new one now, however, I noticed it gives a 'good destination' score which is better than the 'wasted item' penalty (which is also given.) What would be a good solution for this? - Patetch 19:26, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Bugfix uploaded, please test. The same boards that I saw it before the bugfix were refusing to make the "closing soon" go away when I clicked "Prepare board" too. I'm not seeing that behavior any more, but it was pretty rare before, and I'm certain it was linked to customers walking away mad. --Tcarr 15:53, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- This appears to happen only (same round? next round?) that customers walk away mad. I'm testing a bugfix for it.--Tcarr 15:31, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- No hanger found, penalty received and clothing disappeared.
- Need more details on this bug--Tcarr 13:56, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
At the beginning of this turn there was a pair of blue pants on the second hanger. I added the green ones to an empty hanger. The blue ones disappeared but the hanger was replaced. Here is the readout for that turn:
- Clicking GO. Penalty: -5
- Walls in use penalty: -5
- cloth reached workbench!
- Good destination: 11
- cloth reached workbench!
- Good destination: 7
- Color of worker matches: 5
- Color of worker matches: 5
- Color of spool matches: 5
- clothing reached hanger
- clothing reached hanger
- Wasted item: -5
- Good destination: 15
- clothing reached counter
- customer found for clothing
- Bingo!
- Combo points: 80
- Good destination: 30
It says two items reached the hanger but I only moved one (the other went to the bench and then to a customer.) It seems to my non-programming brain that there is a ghost item somewhere.
- I don't see how that setup of walls could send any items to the hangers at all... very strange. There appears to be an extra customer too. Something really booched somewhere. --Tcarr 19:27, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- I have uploaded a new image showing the paths the items had taken (remember this screenie was showing the results of the previous turn. I had not cleared the walls yet but the items had been refreshed.) I had two customers at the counter but only served one, the other one stayed at the counter and the line was refilled to four (which is exactly what I said I wanted to happen at the time - but now the customer goes back to the line instead.) The blue circle shows where the pants had been when that turn started, they disappeared when the green pants were hung up. - Patetch
- I *think* that today's version might have fixed this bug.
Hate to tell you this, but the very first time I tried to add a fourth item, one disappeared - I wasn't expecting it so I didn't document everything again. -Patetch 08:33, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Just uploaded yet another attempt to fix this. Keep your eyes peeled for "Closing Soon" signs that don't go away when you click "Prepare board", because that's another side effect of the same bug.--Tcarr 18:38, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Strangeness happened today while playing level 11. I reached a point where I had nothing that could satisfy any of my customers. I clicked Restock, and only got 3 bolts of cloth.
- You got three bolts? Lucky - I only got two and they were identical as well as unusable. I scored less than 400 on level 11, I have never seen it be so stingy in giving out bolts before! Patetch
- It looks like it happens when the number of bolts in the back drops to 4. I'll see if I can spot the bug in the code.
- I think it's fixed. Test please.--Tcarr 20:43, 26 May 2007 (PDT)
- It looks like it happens when the number of bolts in the back drops to 4. I'll see if I can spot the bug in the code.
- You got three bolts? Lucky - I only got two and they were identical as well as unusable. I scored less than 400 on level 11, I have never seen it be so stingy in giving out bolts before! Patetch
- Implicit walls (moved from possible bug)
A block formed an implicit wall for an unknown reason (the bottom leg of the wall was the top side of the block, but there were no other walls around.) An object then passed through the vertical as it was travelling to the counter.(This was when the blocks were being generated - the blocks are much harder to test now that they are less frequent.)
If you spot improper implicit walls again, please click GO to stop action, then take a screenie for me. Thanks! --Tcarr 07:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT) Every once in a while I see an improper implicit wall too. I haven't managed to get any screenies. --Tcarr 15:55, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
Caught one (ignore the wall I forgot to place :P)-Patetch 18:16, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- We may need to make the implicit walls a different color, so that we can tell which were there before GO was pressed. --Tcarr 18:38, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- Aye, that would help but I am pretty sure (not positive) in this case that the bottom black wall was a barrier but the other two showed up when go was clicked. If I can't get another screenie with proof, then I will move this back to possible bugs. -Patetch
- Since the times that I have thought I've seen a problem stems from the blocks and barriers, it would be a lot easier to test these if we could have temporary sliders for number of blocks and number of barriers on the grid. -Patetch
- After I get caught up on other things, I'll do this meself from the NetLogo command window. I'd really rather not add yet another button to confuse people. Or if you really want to join the hunt, I'll make a third Snook applet.
- Just caught one myself. --Tcarr 08:57, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- After I get caught up on other things, I'll do this meself from the NetLogo command window. I'd really rather not add yet another button to confuse people. Or if you really want to join the hunt, I'll make a third Snook applet.
- Implicit corners formed by | and a L aren't always being made right. --Tcarr 15:00, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- Two items on the same path. Well I have been proven wrong - it is possible to have two items travel the same path if a wall is placed on the same square as a footprint from the bolts or hangers, a second (same type of item) can join the path, but I think that is the only way. In this case, the blue and yellow material both arrived at the same bench and were both counting down. The blue finished first and went on to the customer, the yellow stopped its countdown at two when the worker left. Next turn I placed another worker there, it finished up and went on. Now, I must admit I kind of like this little efficiency exploit but I suppose we ought to squash it, huh? I think I'll go try it on low levels with limited walls before it disappears :D
- This should be fixed now.--Tcarr 18:38, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- It gets really interesting if there is not a customer at a counter when two items are sent this way. Next turn you can put a customer at the counter. I think they walked away happy and sad the first time (happy face sad penalty) but I am not sure - however I am positive that I was able to score a double with one person this way when I found two good items. -Patetch
- Unless the two items arrive to the customer at practically the same time, the customer should already have started to walk away. I'll see what I can do about it. --Tcarr 04:58, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- If there is not a customer at the counter when both items are sent, then they both sit there. When a customer is placed at that counter on a later turn, he gets both items, and each one is scored, which is how I got my double. -Patetch
- Unless the two items arrive to the customer at practically the same time, the customer should already have started to walk away. I'll see what I can do about it. --Tcarr 04:58, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- It gets really interesting if there is not a customer at a counter when two items are sent this way. Next turn you can put a customer at the counter. I think they walked away happy and sad the first time (happy face sad penalty) but I am not sure - however I am positive that I was able to score a double with one person this way when I found two good items. -Patetch
- Do you want me to fix it so that one of the two items is lost, or that only one of the two items is picked up? --Tcarr 18:38, 30 May 2007 (PDT)
- My first preference is to be able to prevent two things on one path in the first place, but I don't know how it would be done. It can only happen if you place a wall with one leg on the edge of the grid (bolt or hanger edge) on the same square as a footprint. I cannot see any good reason to put a wall behind the heel, so if there is a way to check it (if the wall is there, you can't put a footprint out and vice-versa) without removing the ability to have a wall on the same square as a footprint (but in front for an immediate turn.) If that can't be done, I would prefer the item to be lost so that it is consistant. -Patetch 06:10, 31 May 2007 (PDT)
- This should now be fixed. --Tcarr 13:19, 31 May 2007 (PDT)
- My first preference is to be able to prevent two things on one path in the first place, but I don't know how it would be done. It can only happen if you place a wall with one leg on the edge of the grid (bolt or hanger edge) on the same square as a footprint. I cannot see any good reason to put a wall behind the heel, so if there is a way to check it (if the wall is there, you can't put a footprint out and vice-versa) without removing the ability to have a wall on the same square as a footprint (but in front for an immediate turn.) If that can't be done, I would prefer the item to be lost so that it is consistant. -Patetch 06:10, 31 May 2007 (PDT)
I am pretty sure I saw this but I will put it here for now until I can check to see if I see it again.
- Unexpected angry customer. On level 11, on turn 4, I had a customer turn red in line but I was able to put him at the counter and give him an itm he liked. He still walked away angry and I lost 15 points. I had served another customer a little earlier but I don't remember if they were still walking away at the time (would it be better to have customers walk out the bottom so they are not overlapping each other?) Several turns later (probably #7) the closing soon message did not clear.
- I have not seen this crop up lately so likely it was my imagination - having the read-out helps a lot. - Patetch
- I had a block on the same square as a pair of scissors.
- should be fixed now.--Tcarr 18:05, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
- I had a bolt waiting at a workbench (in the first slot.) I set a footprint for a bolt (just happened to be the same kind) and then changed my mind and clicked again - the footprint disappeared but so did the bolt up at the workbench. I know it happened but I can't reproduce it.
- I'll check the code to see if that's something that's likely to happen again. If it's a once in a blue moon type weirdness, then we just live with it. --Tcarr 14:56, 5 June 2007 (PDT)
- I don't see how this could happen at all, but I made a tweak that should make it even less likely. --Tcarr 15:05, 5 June 2007 (PDT)
- :D I am pretty sure it was an odd fluke - I have never seen it happen before.
- I don't see how this could happen at all, but I made a tweak that should make it even less likely. --Tcarr 15:05, 5 June 2007 (PDT)
- I'll check the code to see if that's something that's likely to happen again. If it's a once in a blue moon type weirdness, then we just live with it. --Tcarr 14:56, 5 June 2007 (PDT)
- It would appear that the barriers are sometimes being placed on top of each other. I have been testing starting barriers and sometimes there is less than there should be.
- The straight bars can happen on top of each other. It's the only way to allow them to make Ls without massive amounts of coding. The block barriers should each be on its own tile. --Tcarr 12:08, 5 June 2007 (PDT)
- I can live with that - I would not have even noticed if I weren't trying to test things with specific numbers of barriers.
- The straight bars can happen on top of each other. It's the only way to allow them to make Ls without massive amounts of coding. The block barriers should each be on its own tile. --Tcarr 12:08, 5 June 2007 (PDT)
- I had 2 pairs of scissors in the same square.
- This should no longer happen. --Tcarr 14:25, 7 June 2007 (PDT)
- Ouch! I have been cut by scissors when I should not have been - didn't catch it but I should have - I was planning on taking a screenie of my set-up that had me crossing over 2 pairs of scissors with both of my items.
- I think that this morning's update fixed this problem. --Tcarr 11:47, 9 June 2007 (PDT)
- Arr! My kingdom for a replay button! :P I *think* I am getting an improper 'Bad Destination' message - I have been surprised a couple times seeing it in my score output but I have no way of knowing where it came from, too many things happen at once - I'll keep looking.
- I have not seen this or been able to replicate it at at all so I will chalk it up to faulty memory. - Patetch
- Levels 3 and 4 appear to be expecting the player to make two happy customers each turn to continue a combo even though there are only 3 customers in line.
- Good catch! Tweaked; please test. --Tcarr 06:25, 10 June 2007 (PDT)
- If you forget to put a customer at the counter and it just so happens to be the last possible item, then next turn you can't just set him at the counter to collect the item because it won't let you click 'Go' without any footprints.
- Bad destination and wasted items don't seem to be breaking combos.
- I just noticed that on level 2 (and probably 1) that if you try to put a bolt back on the shelf in the top or bottom row it is a bad destination. I am assuming this is linked to not having the bolts appear in those two rows on those two levels. Is there a way to allow reshelving but not spawning on those rows instead? It works fine on the other levels.
- I had the persistent "Closing Soon" message again - no angry customers at all.
- I'm still stumped on what causes this. --Tcarr 14:25, 7 June 2007 (PDT)
- I have noticed that sometimes objects are placed on top of the words - could placement order have anything to do with it getting stuck? - Patetch
- That shouldn't have any effect. What *can* is if "Prepare Board" is clicked too soon, but I've seen this problem even when playing slowly. I'll keep thinking about it. --Tcarr 13:36, 10 June 2007 (PDT)
- I have noticed that sometimes objects are placed on top of the words - could placement order have anything to do with it getting stuck? - Patetch
I don't know if this will help any but I just happened to take a screenshot the turn before (and after) getting this message.
Would it be possible just to put the 'closing soon' message in the lower left corner? (below the material and not not in the way of the customers) I wouldn't even mind if it stayed on once it showed up, just as a reminder.
- That works for me - I haven't noticed any other problem associated with it so whether it stays or not is not a big deal anymore. Thanks -Patetch
