Talk:Greeter

Policies?
I don't think the YPPedia is a place for policies like these. I believe it's like one of the Wikipedia policies says, that you shouldn't post things you don't want people to be able to edit and copy. Official policies should go on the official site, perhaps in the forums. Additionally we can write what OMs and greeters might want us to do, but I don't think we should write about what we must and mustn't do. - Paladin


 * I think it's perfectly appropriate to have that list here. It doesn't say everyone must or mustn't do such and such.  It's perfectly legitimate advice for people who think they'd like to become a greeter.  --Guppymomma 16:18, 8 August 2005 (PDT)

confusion in how to become a greeter
Second graf of the article reades, "Players with a serious interest in volunteering should contact an OceanMaster." However, under "How New Greenies are Chosen," there's: "DON'T send a tell or petition to an OceanMaster if you are interested in becoming a greeter. Nominations are primarily made by other greeters. Comport yourself in a greeterly manner and you will eventually be noticed and nominated." Bit of a conflict there - I've only heard the "don't ask" guideline mentioned before. --Ratbasket 18:39, 24 August 2005 (PDT)
 * Petitioning is a perfectly acceptable way to throw your name out. I tossed out the conflicting line. Though it looks like Guppymomma threw out the other part, which is an error. --Thunderbird
 * I'm rolling back your edit at least temporarily. The bit about not petitioning OceanMasters about being a greeter was put in by an OceanMaster, Castor.  I'll ask Eurydice to confirm/deny this though just to double check. --Guppymomma 07:07, 25 August 2005 (PDT)
 * Correct--do NOT use a petition to ask to be a greeter. --Eurydice 19:55, 26 August 2005 (PDT)

...how new greenies are chosen? I think that greenies are chosen by the fact that they have not played for 15 hours yet xD --Flamer 13:26, 17 October 2006 (PDT) Hmmm... I thought this new system means that anyone meeting criteria can /duty when they liked, without being recruited. Please clarify, O.M's-- Aideng 16:15 18 October 2006 (BST)
 * If the question is about how greenies are chosen, greenies are players who are new to the game, yes. --Ponytailguy 08:38, 18 October 2006 (PDT)

Clarification?
"Greeters do not have special banning or shunning privileges. They have the same blackspot capability as officers and above in an established crew on the rest of the ocean."

Recently it emerged on the forums, as far as I can tell, that Greeters don't have magical blackspot power... if they'd have it anyway, they do, and if they wouldn't, they don't get it for being pink. If this is correct, than this might be better phrased as just "Greeters may have blackspot power if they belong to a qualifying crew", because at present it seems to indicate that it's a perk of greetership. Anyway, not being a greeter myself and everything being hearsay, here's me asking first to be sure. --Ponytailguy 16:52, 20 April 2006 (PDT)


 * Greetering doesn't do anything to your blackspot, if it does, I've lost my spot permanently. --ROCKAB88M 10:21, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

New Players, under Yellow
New Players, under Yellow

It's come to my attention that if a new player is under a green name they can see us just fine. However, the green does not last a long period of time and as it vanishes, so does the availability of seeing a pink greeter name. With discussion of several other greeters, it has been suggested that all newer players, weither they are on an experienced account or not, should be allowed to see it. Shouldn't yellow names be able to see greeters as well incase they need aid?

For simple questions that people have been asking Ocean Masters that may be on the YPPedia or are not, yet, on the YPPEdia. Could those questions not be shunted to Greeters rather than going directly to ocean masters all the time? This would make it easier for the OMs and also allowing these individuals easier access to Greeters in order to aid them in game mechanics and behavior.

And last, what of those who "absue the system" by either harassing other greeters trying to get them to quit or those who take advantage of the greeter system to mistreat and dupe new players? What shall become of them?

Shalimar (BrighidRaven) Cobalt Ocean Crimson and Silver Crew Wailing Waters Flag


 * Pink names visible to all, green names longer, and/or greeters visible to players longer have all been discussed before. The wiki is not the game design forum, where these types of comments would probably be best.  If you mean questions submitted in the form of petitions, there is no real feasable way (that I know of) to shunt questions in petions to greeters, and has been discussed, and nayed by Ringers before.  As for greeters who abuse the system, they will be degreetered, although I suppose if they abused it bad enough, they could wind up banned as well.  As for people who harras or abuse greeters, they will be dealt with according to the TOS, ie banned/shunned/suspended if they did something deserving of it.  --Falkenberg 14:45, 18 October 2006 (PDT)


 * This page isn't really the right place to make suggestions about changing the Greeter system. Please use the Game Design forum for that.  Thanks!  --Barrister 03:14, 19 October 2006 (PDT)

Greeter giveaways
A senior greeter last night made a good point that I didn't see reflected here- that it's a bad idea to give the new players clothes or poe, as it sets a poor example of game etiquette (ie, begging is bad); some new pink names seemed surprised. Should this note be added here? --Pauling 15:06, 18 October 2006 (PDT)


 * I think it's definitely worth mentioning Mewtroid 16:17, 19 October 2006 (PDT)
 * I added a line to that effect but if anyone would like to reword it to make it less like dog training...--Angelbeaver (talk) 16:24, 19 October 2006 (PDT)

New category
I am musing over creating a new Greeter category to tie together all the useful reference pages for them. Or, at least, a sub category to the Help cat, (Help:Greeter). Categorised pages could include Etiquette, Greeter, Greeter/FAQ, Greeter shortkeys and so on. --Featherfin 10:22, 21 October 2006 (PDT)

I was also wondering if we shouldn't have a simple "tips and tricks to providing customer support" page for new greeters. I'm lucky in the respect that I've worked in the Computer Help Desk field for over 10 years now, and have honed my questioning techniques on many of a fustrated person over the phone. It would nice to have some tips for people new to the greeter role that explains how to ask questions from the greenie, how to explain answers and give walk throughs, how to keep greenies focused on the task at hand, and even how to let the greenie know their lifeline in the game is still there while trying to get information to help the greenie.

Let me know if you decide this would be a good subject for a page. I wouldn't mind helping write it. --Alleahswiki 22:55, 24 January 2007 (PST)

Historical Notes
I think it would be very interesting if there could be a section about all those "secret methods and practices" of greetership before Release 2006-10-17.--Arminius 17:16, 16 December 2006 (PST)


 * "Secret greeter cave" forum aside, the greeters I've talked to seemed rather firm in insisting that the only real secret they had was related to the nomination process, and that to avoid people from seeking it for the wrong reasons. Other than that- help new players, pink name, shortkeys.... did you have something else in mind? --Pauling 11:50, 17 December 2006 (PST)


 * Now that a nomination process is not a factor in greetership anymore, it would be nice if it were fully disclosed. Naming the pirates directly involved in it would not be necessary of course. This information would be a nice touch as historical notes on this particular article. --Arminius 21:15, 17 December 2006 (PST)


 * I can confirm that there were never any secrets. The reason there were "secret methods and practices" was intended to keep greetership low-key, as when it was first implemented the new name colour was a bit of a status symbol- hence why yellow players cannot see who is an on-duty greeter. If it's okay with the OMs and Ringers I don't mind filling out a subsection or subarticle with some of the whys and hows of the previous system, and what went on in the "secret greeter cave" forum :) --Diamondblade 23:36, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

Broadcasts
As the YPPedia article is frequently being cited as "saying that we should be making broadcasts every 30 minutes" (when, in fact, it says nothing of the sort), I think it would be prudent to add something like "This does not mean you should broadcast at every opportunity. in fact, most of the time, there is no need to broadcast at all, and it's always better to leave it be than broadcast simply for the sake of doing so." to the article text. Would this be appropriate? (I'm asking for broad opinion here.) --Ponytailguy 17:57, 17 January 2007 (PST)
 * I personally think the minimum time between broadcasts should be raised to 60 or even 90 minutes. But apart from that, I'd agree with the change. Greenies seemed to find the help buttons just fine before the greeter change when it was rare for a broadcast to be heard during the course of a day, let alone every half hour. Granted, broadcasting back then on a doub ocean tended to get you multiple buttons at once. --Thunderbird 19:57, 17 January 2007 (PST)

Since broadcasts are also used to alert greenies for special tourneys or pillages directed at teaching, it seems that further restriction by use of the time measure (60-90) isn't really conducive to the system as a whole. I agree that there is an issue on "when" broadcasts are appropriate and at first glance, time limits directly affect the "when" variable but not the overall problem. It has also been wrongfully adopted, mostly due to the 60 minute reference, that broadcasts should be at the top of the hour. How can this be appropriate guideline as "top of the hour" doesn't correlate to when greenies may or may not need assistance; or further more, when greeters may want to volunteer time toward a greenie event?


 * [16:29:09] Nemesis greeter chats, "Every sixty minutes is some flakey made up thing."
 * [16:29:29] Artesia greeter chats, "Then just set a limit."
 * [16:29:49] Nemesis greeter chats, "We have. It's called 'When you annoy Nemesis with too many broadcasts, she'll take away the pink'." ROCKAB88M 13:21, 21 February 2007 (PST)

In an effort to cut down on the spam ASKING about the broadcasts, I'm adding another guideline. 60 minutes is arbitrary, of course. But how about broadcasts ONLY on the hour, based on /info time. If someone doesn't see a broadcast, then it's OK to make one, but if they don't do it on the hour, oops. That way we can refer ppl to the wiki page. Sashamorning 15:05, 1 April 2007 (PDT)
 * As Nemesis was quoted as saying above, there is no 60 minute limit, and we prefer that it not be presented as a rule or enforced in any way. --Eurydice 15:52, 1 April 2007 (PDT)
 * Dammit, Eury! That reply doesn't satisfy the "every comment on the YPPedia must take at least 15 seconds to read" rule! I'll have to block you now. :( --Ponytailguy 19:10, 1 April 2007 (PDT)
 * u shutup ptg i ban u --Eurydice 21:48, 1 April 2007 (PDT)
 * u gif poez too? --Arminius 10:07, 2 April 2007 (PDT)

After weeks and months of surveying the various responses to broadcasts, I see that greenies extremely seldom use the "ask a greeter"-function unless they are encouraged. Our way to encourage them is, as we all know, the broadcast. A greeter colleague has the ideology that broadcasts are supposed to be made as often as allowed in order to enlighten new players of this function, which in most cases is very helpful in educating players. I understand that ocean masters don't want the broadcast channel flooded, and I've heard average one greenie per month complaining loudly about broadcasts, but it makes more good than evil if you ask me. The time limit is a problem to most new greeters who sometimes tend to disobey the guidelines here in the wiki, and for greeters who wish to broadcast an event where a template broadcast was recently made. I think that broadcasts should be used frequently in order to encourage players to educate themselves, and I suggest a change in the rules, where an annoucement among the greeters is made before a broadcast is authorized. I've been ranting about this before, check this one out: http://tinyurl.com/3al6dv - Kirayatail 12:45 PM (PDT), 8 April 2007


 * Lately, Viridian greeter chat has become ridiculous with everyone quoting this line "Greeter Broadcasts should be used sparingly. There should not be more than one Broadcast every 60 minutes." to prevent greeter broadcasts.  I think the second part should be removed, as per the discussion above.  The next sentence seems to about cover everything that needs to be.  -- Thefirstdude (t/c) 13:59, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

How's this for a compromise? IMO, the best way to explain broadcasts is to distinguish between the various types. --Ponytailguy 10:35, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
 * I like it, its pretty and functional. You might want to add a "click the image to expand (Filesize)" in that caption? Perhaps also an example broadcast for the Pillage option? Domokun 13 April 2007, 13:51 (GMT)

New template broadcast message
As of a few days ago, the template for greeter broadcasts here was changed to a longer version. It first seemed like it was more personal and included more positive suggestions for the greenies, but now I've seen the real effect. After doing 3 broadcasts with this new model, I've recieved about 20 greenie questions (which is natural), all about "how do you make money/poe" (which is far from natural). Of course, I know the immediate response from all of you.. I could make up my own message and write it down somewhere. But I think that the wiki template is a really neat idea, which should be nurtured with feedback if needed.

Question: is there anyone else experiencing the same thing?

Proposal: Why not work out a perfect message that does not "bias" greenies, while it still suggests ideas of questions? PoE, and how to get it, is already such a central concept, so it does not need any suggestion in my oppinion.

(I'm working on a proposal of a broadcast myself, more to come.)

Kirayatail


 * Ahoy! Thanks for your kind words about my new example Broadcast :) The B/c was written because I thought the 'example' one was a little robotic (no offense to Sasha who wrote it). Since changing to that b/c I too have received many more tells from Greenies, and tells from Greeters commenting on the broadcast, and how nice it is. I have several pre-written broadcasts concerning all manner of common questions, and would like them to be added to the Wiki. Currently however, when I have the time to sit and do it, I plan to write (what I have coined) 'Domokun's Good Greeter Guide', in which I plan to add all my example broadcasts, general etiquette, do's and don'ts and anything else I can think of to help new Greeters. This will, of course, be all opinion based, but I think I am experienced and fit for the task. Thoughts? Domokun.


 * Could you remove the quotes round Pieces of Eight? It's part of the game, I don't think new players should be put under the impression it's some stupid made up thing. ROCKAB88M 10:13, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

A few minor things
Ok, There's a couple, spawned from me being on duty on Hunter for the better part of today mainly, but it all applies.

1. The greeter must put PoE in the hold in order to pay new players. <-- this is no longer true.

2. Eligible greeters who job onto a greeter pillage are placed on duty as soon as they accept the offer to job. <-- should read "Players eligible to be a greeter" because regardless of whether you've ever been on duty or not, the minute you step on one you're on duty.

3. Greeter abilities... somewhere in here mention should be made that Greeters do NOT have any special ability to do anything to another player. The amount of times I've heard a conversation such as Yellow: "Why should I listen to you" Greeter: "because I'm a greeter" today it's just not funny. There are WAY too many people of the opinion that greeters are a rank above other players.

4. Broadcasts.... Some mention of "Please do not broadcast if you do not have 20 minutes to sit and answer questions afterwards" perhaps? The amount of buttons I get 2 minutes after a broadcast from greenies who tried to send a tell to the person who broadcast only to be told that they've gone offline is... staggering.

5. The first time an eligible greeter goes on /duty, the pirate will receive a warning (displayed here on the right) and automatically be directed to this page. <-- Unless they were duty'd on by boarding a Greeter Pillage in which case there's no warning, no automatic link here nothing. You're just pink with access to the broadcast and greeter chat.

I'd edit myself but I'm barely competent enough to put this onto the talk page let alone put it on the wiki itself which is what the talk page is for right? For people like me to get the problems that we see to people who can change bits without breaking the wiki (Which is what I'm afraid of doing really, not a good idea with this page) - Starrarose 23:30, 14 April 2007 (PDT)
 * Point #1 is still true, as the entry in the Ice Ocean changelog appears after the last production release. Unless it was somehow changed without a release (I'm not sure if it's a server-side thing or not). --Thunderbird 23:09, 5 May 2007 (PDT)

Blackspot
I believe Greeters do get extra Blackspot priveliges; Having set my mind on finding out, I tested the blackspot with the help of my good friends Spotme, Piecake, and Blackspotone. (They are three of my alts, same account)
 * Ye are now on duty.
 * Ye dealt them the black spot! [Spotme]
 * Ye are now off duty.
 * Alas the black spot could not be dealt: Ye crew can't yet deal the black spot! [Piecake]
 * Ye are now on duty.
 * Ye dealt them the black spot! [Piecake]
 * Ye are now off duty.
 * Alas the black spot could not be dealt: Ye crew can't yet deal the black spot! [Blackspotone]
 * Ye are now on duty.
 * Ye dealt them the black spot! [Blackspotone]

The alts got 1, 2, and 4 minutes' shun time. rockab88m 13:44, 14 January 2008 (PST) Edit: Yes, I know I said I thought this wasn't the case before. But I just proved myself wrong. Edit^2: It doubles every time. I did it some more.

Questionable information?
On the introduction, there's a line that says: "Greeters are often also responsible for running special tournaments and greeter pillage trips for greenies to help them become more comfortable with the game." Never before have I seen tournaments that are specially made for Greenies, because there's really no such thing. Sure, a Greeter is able to gather a huge group of Greenies and run a local tournament with them, but how "often" does this happen? ...Never?

Edit: I just read through some of these previous discussions, and it seems that "broadcasts are also used to alert greenies for special tourneys or pillages directed at teaching". Greeter broadcasts are no longer available, so rounding up Greenies for a tournament seems weird and rather hard as you'd have to tell Greenies one by one. --Yehj 15:28, 27 February 2008 (PST)

Clarification on types of questions allowed on chat?
Okay, this is still going round 'n round. What is the official policy on questions that can be asked on greeter chat? Some people maintain it's only for greenie questions that the greeter doesn't know the answer to; others maintain ANY question is fair game. The section on greeter chat is not clear:

Greeter chat is to be used solely for greetering related conversations, including such things as:

'''Finding answers to non-opinion questions that you can't answer on your own. (We recommend that you use a petition for more advanced questions.) '''

To me, greetering-related conversations specifically refers to answering greenie questions. On the other hand, the next line seems to leave the issue wide open--in other words, ANY factual question is fair game.

If, indeed, greeters are now expected to be the Faulkstons of the ocean, then perhaps the "Ask a greeter" button should be available to all? (Yeah, I know, GD question.)

Comments, clarifications, anyone? -- Emerson 18:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Take note that the Greeter Chat Rules area has an Official page transcluded...it can't be modified by players. --Thunderbird 19:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What this means is the listed rules are the official policy. Rules listed after the colon are a subset of things listed before the colon - we haven't started a new paragraph and thus we're still working on the same idea. So we've already established before the colon that it's to be used solely for greetering-related conversations - now after the colon we've clarified it to be the subset of greetering-related conversations which are both non-opinion and can't be answered by the greeter.


 * That said, I kinda don't think greeters should be enforcing the greeter chat rules, mostly because they're so bad at it. Let me give an example. Suppose someone asks a question that's clearly not been asked by a greenie - say, "how many small cannonballs does it take to sink a GF?" The usual response of greeter chat is to erupt into a chorus of "NOT A GREENIE QUESTION" that takes five minutes to die down, when it's far simpler to just say "36" and be done with it. Maybe throw in a tell that it's not really appropriate for greeter chat, and can easily be found on the wiki anyway. Then there's the people who make actually answer a question with "I don't know". If you don't know, there's no need to let us know.


 * Not sure what you mean by the Faulkstons of the ocean, but there's no need for an exhaustive search of the forums to find an answer to a question - ninety percent of the questions on greeter chat can be easily answered with a quick seach in the wiki, or else ought to be common knowledge to someone who's been playing long enough to be a greeter. "How do I get to X uninhabited island" is a favourite. Greeters are expected to put in at least a a modicum of effort before running to the gestalt. --Belthazar451 23:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Clarification: we intentionally removed the "greenie only questions" requirement because it was felt to be a little ridiculous to be "punishing" people for asking legitimate questions. Further, the situation kept coming up where the motives for asking questions was being questioned and argued about in chat and in complaints - figuring out what was or wasn't a "real greenie question" was just absurd - not to mention there was a rising trend of adding "a greenie asked me..." to any question that was asked, just to avoid such problems.  (A trend which was especially amusing when questions were being asked about flag alliances and things that no greenie would ever need to know.)  We felt it would be more productive to simply allow all sorts of questions, and encourage those with complicated questions to petition instead.  --Artemis 14:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It has been suggested, much to my chagrin, that one should not have to consult YPPedia before asking on /greeter chat first, because the rules do not specifically mention YPPedia. To me it was always implied by "questions... that you can't answer on your own" that one should ask crew, flag, hearties, YPPedia, forums, and exhaust all resources before coming to /greeter. Some people (mostly the people who ask simple questions) don't seem to realize the value of these other resources and spam up /greeter as their own personal assistant. IMHO, greeters should know and use these resources at their disposal, and this should be made explicit in the article. Chupchup 14:10, 8 February 2012 (PST)
 * Hmm. It's mentioned further up the page in General Principles but yeah, not in the rules. --Belthazar451 14:26, 8 February 2012 (PST)
 * Oh, hah. You just added it then. Never mind. =) --Belthazar451 14:30, 8 February 2012 (PST)