User talk:AtteSmythe/Sandbox

As a seperate table I think it's a fine idea. However, because some people have such huge collections you may want to add a variable to control the font size. Defult it to 100% and if necessary it can be adjusted for individual pirate pages.

As an infobox addition I think we should limit it to one trinket, again because of the huge collections that some people have. Between Ice and Viridian I've got close to two dozen trinkets and a list that long would make Silverdawg's page look small in comparison.--Fiddler 15:21, 3 August 2006 (PDT)


 * Font size might be a good thing to track. The table isn't fixed-width, so we can see how that goes - so far, the trinket images are by far the largest vertical element. I hadn't even considered an infobox element. That would be really easy to do up. Since what I'm doing is a little sneaky, I suppose I ought to ask explicitly if anyone thinks that the images are going to cause page loads to be too slow - click the second trinket image to see what I mean. --AtteSmythe 20:18, 3 August 2006 (PDT)


 * Okay, that is nifty. And sneaky.  I don't think it'll cause too great a problem with page loads; my experiment had the page coming up just fine with different trinkets of the same type loading in later.  Of course, I do have to wonder about the sustainability of such a trick.--Fiddler 23:07, 3 August 2006 (PDT)
 * It'll take fiddling with the current trinket graphics, any new ones that come out, and a bunch of math templates. Other than that, I don't really expect existing trinkets to be updated. All four of the 18x18 color trinkets I know of are done, and will share their math templates. I can probably fit the 18x1 color trinkets into that same math, too. The oddballs will need their own templates for the color names, but may not need actual different math. Ah, and the competition trophies will probably all require something different. First things first... Unfortunately, I'll probably be letting that go until next week so I can get some real work done. ;) --AtteSmythe 23:56, 3 August 2006 (PDT)

I just figured out how you're creating the individual trinket images. You're mad. Mad, I tell you! --Barrister 16:07, 4 August 2006 (PDT)
 * Mad would've been uploading 324 images for each of the 18x18 color trinkets. Ugh. --AtteSmythe 16:13, 4 August 2006 (PDT)

Infobox Pirate
Specific implementation/coding problems only here, please. Main discussion at Template talk:Infobox pirate. Thanks! --AtteSmythe 13:36, 25 September 2006 (PDT)

I really like the implementation of the yoweb links that you've used for Centenarian. If we can fix it so the icons fit inside the box I think that would be the way to go, as increasing numbers of elements can stack one atop another instead of having to create a separate layout for each possible ocean configuration. It would also allow yoweb links to completely replace the gallery box, which may be the only way to fully make this backwards compatible.--Fiddler 09:01, 3 November 2006 (PST)
 * I agree, but I can't figure out how to make the div enclose the images. :/ That was my hope while editing yesterday. Actually, I have another idea... --AtteSmythe 09:05, 3 November 2006 (PST)
 * Ok. Just need to center the text vertically, and we should be set. The quick-and-dirty part of my brain says I should give up and just use a table. --AtteSmythe 09:11, 3 November 2006 (PST)
 * Y'know, I honestly think it doesn't look bad like that. Plug in User:Fiddler/Sandbox/yoweb to your custom field and see how it looks.  Even at six oceans the full yoweb linking only takes up a little bit more room than the current gallery links (with my monitor and font settings, anyways.)  Now we just need to come up with a good way of specifying the icons and alt text and I think this can go out.  Oh, and we may need to specify a new name for gallery, since this is no longer a link to just the portraits.  I think we can now set up the template to accept a second name for the variable; I'll have a look for that in the morning.
 * Incidentally, I think I've come up with a way of using both the current gallery links and the new yoweb links. However, it's more trouble than it's worth and wouldn't be retroactive.  PM me if you want the gory, half-cocked details.--Fiddler 22:09, 8 November 2006 (PST)
 * Ok, two issues: The right-hand border is cut off for some reason, and I don't like how the different ocean's borders look when they run into each other. I'm tired and rumbling right now, but maybe tomorrow I'll have a chance to play with it a little more. If worse comes to worst, I'll take a px of padding out of the div and turn it into margin. --AtteSmythe 00:11, 9 November 2006 (PST)
 * Got the width. Valign is driving me nuts, as are the border interactions. More thoughts tommorrow, perhaps. --AtteSmythe 00:50, 9 November 2006 (PST)
 * Got the border interactions. I'll take a crack at v-align next, though personally I kind of like it shoved up towards the top like that.--Fiddler 05:26, 9 November 2006 (PST)
 * And the v-align; I just put the link inside it's own relative position div tag. Right now each element in my sandbox has a separate offset.  I like Ice, which is 2px off from its original position.--Fiddler 05:40, 9 November 2006 (PST)
 * Good call on the borders! I'm not sure I would've come up with that, honestly. The only change I'd make in translating over what you've done is to change the vertical positioning to padding - I think that'd be more robust for font size changes, etc. Otherwise, I think we're good to go! It's close, but we might even be able to squeeze the governor icon in there...In fact, should we move both the crew and flag icons to the left? (formatting simplified a bit on the second box, too):

Centenarian  Midnight  Midnight


 * I like it; shoving the ocean off to the right does make it easier to fit three icons. I'll take a crack at coming up with good variable names later on.  One question is whether we should default these to CP/member or to empty spaces?  I'm leaning towards the latter.--Fiddler 21:04, 9 November 2006 (PST)
 * Crew-Flag-Gov-Familiar Ocean? I think that sounds like a good order. We're in good shape. I think I'd also recommend blanks instead of defaulting to cabin person - perhaps shaddowy, empty circles for the two rank positions, and a category inclusion specifying that they need to be updated? It'd be pretty easy to code up. Lastly, we'll probably need to include the 'last update' fields, even if we don't display them, because the rank information should probably expire after a while, no? (And, then, also a defunct version of the template for pirates that vanish, to remove them from the 'outdated info' category). Hmmm...--AtteSmythe 10:39, 10 November 2006 (PST)
 * Maybe my brain is a bit mushy today, but you lost me at "category inclusion specifying that they need to be updated." I'll assume you have an idea of how to work all that.  However, let me say that I don't think any of that is really necessary.  The impossibility of keeping this up to date across the wiki is the major reason I was so keen on linking to yoweb.  Along with trinkets and pets (and trophies and ships) the iconing feels like myspace-ization of the pirate articles.  Like those features, I think we should just lump them into the "unsupported and unverified" portion of the articles, especially as the icons will be sitting right next to the link to go see the current facts about the pirate.
 * Incidentally, I noticed that the alt text on the images aren't working. If this is how it'll be, we can save ourselves eighteen variables from the final template.--Fiddler 12:43, 10 November 2006 (PST)
 * Fair 'nuff. FWIW, the alt texts are working for me, though that isn't really an indication that they're necessary. --AtteSmythe 12:48, 10 November 2006 (PST)
 * I have no idea really what level I should be indenting this comment on, but I really like the icons on the left & ocean name on the right layout example. Nice job! --Guppymomma 16:41, 13 November 2006 (PST)

Parameters
I really, really, don't like the current parameter naming scheme for the infobox_pirate. I'd like to change their names to something more intuitive and consistent, falling back to the old names if the new ones aren't present. It's probably going to muck up the code, but I think it's probably worth it. We'll have to get PTG to update the toasters, but he's going to have to update them already anyways.

IMO, the multiple-gallery syntax is difficult. I'd like to change it from ocean2-1, ocean2-2, etc. to something like pirate1ocean1, pirate1ocean2, pirate2ocean1, pirate2ocean1, etc. It's going to be a big template. :/
 * piratenames=1-3
 * pirate1-name=
 * pirate1-ocean1=
 * pirate1-ocean1-crank=
 * pirate1-ocean1-crew=
 * pirate1-ocean1-frank=
 * pirate1-ocean1-flag=
 * pirate1-ocean1-gov=yes/no
 * pirate1-ocean1-govisland=
 * pirate1-ocean1-familiar=yes/no
 * pirate1-ocean2=
 * pirate1-ocean2-crank=
 * etc.
 * etc to 6 oceans
 * pirate2-name=
 * pirate2-ocean1=
 * pirate2-ocean1-crank=
 * etc
 * etc
 * etc. to 3


 * Ow. So long as we don't break anything I'm fine with re-naming the parameters; it was a rush job on my part anyways.  If we eliminate the alt text (let's give them a reason to click the link) we can drop eighteen parameters from the template.  And I'm still not convinced on having the familiar icon in addition to governor.  I see something like this:
 * piratenames=1-3
 * pirate1-name=
 * pirate1-ocean1=
 * pirate1-ocean1-crank=
 * pirate1-ocean1-frank=
 * pirate1-ocean1-extra=governor/familiar/something else
 * pirate1-ocean2=
 * pirate1-ocean2-crank=
 * etc.
 * The simpler we can make this, the less headache it will cause later on as new pages are created by users copying older pages. Perhaps we need to break down and have two templates - {Infobox pirate simple} and {Infobox pirate complex}--Fiddler 15:41, 10 November 2006 (PST)
 * Maybe we can utilize passing a template as a parameter as a way to simplify entry -
 * (last two default blank).
 * This is the approach I took with the My_... templates, and the one used by the oceans table. Might make the conversion trickier, I'd have to think about it. --AtteSmythe 16:04, 10 November 2006 (PST)


 * Here's a thought on conversion: Forget the icons for the moment, use what we have, and switch over to displaying the full yoweb links inside the ocean background boxes. This can be done seamlessly and will hopefully slow the introduction of trophy lists to pirate articles.
 * Even if we did convert fully right now the number of existing pirate pages that are actually maintained, coupled with the default blank image, means that full functionality will be slow to appear across the wiki. If we use what we have now, sans icons, we can take our time and make a proper rollout in a week or two, getting feedback on the changes and making sure that we won't be completely messing up this intricate template.--Fiddler 21:36, 10 November 2006 (PST)
 * I don't think I have anything particularly useful to add. Just that this is a lot of parameters. If a template as a variable in a template work, it could just be like cobalticons=  or something like that to just simplify it. --Guppymomma 16:41, 13 November 2006 (PST)
 * For one pirate, it would be:
 * pirate1=
 * pirate1-ocean1= (p1o1=?)
 * pirate1-ocean1-crewrank= (p1o1-crewrank=?)
 * p1o1-crew=
 * p1o1-flagrank=
 * p1o1-flag=
 * p1o1-governor= (use ifdef to remove extra parameter)
 * Not sure it's worth having the specific crew and flag, given we're linking the yoweb. I think I'm going to have to throw my ballot in with doing just crewrank, flagrank, familiar, and governor, all optional. With 6 oceans, it'd still be a ton. I'll look into what it'd take to do it in an included template via parameter. --AtteSmythe 20:27, 13 November 2006 (PST)