Talk:Ship

Commodity costs
Wasn't sure whether to put the commodity costs here, on Shipyard, or on the individual ship pages. Any thoughts? Ojacobson 04:30, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * Since costs can very from island to island and ocean to ocean, I'd leave that information off the page and in the game.--Fiddler 06:41, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * I don't mean the PoE costs, I mean the costs I put down in the table there -- how many wood, how much expert labour, and so on. Ojacobson 12:45, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * It should probably be incorporated into the ship template on each ship type page. I'm surprised nobody noticed it before, thanks!  --Guppymomma 12:50, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * Done and done! Ojacobson 13:12, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * I'd say this is a good place. We have other recipes listed on the product page linked off the industry page and this follows the same pattern.  Besides, when you're looking to build a ship you'll look at a shipyard, when you're looking to run a ship you'll look up its entry.--Fiddler 12:53, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * Do you mean the Ship section or the Shipyard section? It looks like we're not very consistent about where the recipes go (peeking at the distillery page and then the linked things)...most of the recipes go on the individual products' pages, but hemp oil doesn't have a recipe on its page. (stop posting, go get married! :)) --Guppymomma 12:57, 6 August 2005 (PDT)
 * This is the sort of thing that might belong in the style guide..? Ojacobson 13:12, 6 August 2005 (PDT)

Max Damage numbers
Is there a point to having decimal numbers? After all, I don't see how I'm going to be able to unload 6.66 medium cannonballs (rather than 7) into a sloop to sink it, or something. --Thunderbird 17:23, 2 September 2005 (PDT)


 * Actually, yes. Because ramming into rocks or different-sized ships don't always count as a single cannonball.  What we really need to is to add information about ramming.  --Barrister 17:28, 2 September 2005 (PDT)
 * To add information on ramming, we'd need to explain how each ship has, for lack of a better term, "hitpoints" during each battle. A sloop hitting a merchant brig, for instance, causes 10 of a possible 60 damage to the sloop and 5 of a possible 120 damage for the merchant brig.   21:13, 2 September 2005 (PDT)
 * Further note. By not having the decimal point percentage, your numbers are incorrect for rumble.  I personally think it would be better to have percentages and tell people then to correctly round than give wrong numbers (which is probably why Khaimm thinks the cutter numbers are wrong, which, they kind of are depending on the situation).--Rome 01:50, 12 April 2008 (PDT)

I just noticed that the numbers for the Cutter do not match those listed on its page. Can someone confirm which is correct, and change the other? --Khaimm 06:29, 1 February 2007 (PST)

Is the longship damage really correct? For all other ships the Lcb damage number is half of the Scb except the Longship. -- Angara 06:29, 23 November 2007 (PST)

Grand Frig Pirate #
Beyond the fact that it really is 159, I noticed that oddly going through the history, as far as I can tell it was put in before but then quietly disappeared (went back to 150 before this latest correcting edit) without an edit or rollback. Am I just blind? --Guppymomma 15:46, 2 November 2005 (PST)
 * I looked through the history of this article, and didn't ever see the Pirate count for Grand Frigate at 159 until the last edit. --Thunderbird 17:19, 2 November 2005 (PST)
 * Right, but I mistakenly rolled it back on the grand frigate page at one point. Until I got myself a screen shot of 159. --Barrister 17:25, 2 November 2005 (PST)
 * I'm obviously confused. :) Maybe I'm thinking of the grand frig page.  That's probably it. Thanks guys! --Guppymomma 18:23, 2 November 2005 (PST)

Merchant Galleon
Are the cannon and cannon ball numbers correct? I did the math and it did not come out perfectly.


 * Are you referring to the number of cannon balls that can be loaded, the number of gunnery stations, or the number of shots taken for max damage?  14:05, 8 November 2005 (PST)

No clue, for all other ships it seems that the number of shot was just the number of cannon stations multiplied by four. Only ship that it did not stay consistant on --Sulu 14:25, 8 November 2005 (PST)


 * We have high confidence that all numbers here are correct. If you have seen something that contradicts it, please let us know.  --Barrister 15:03, 8 November 2005 (PST)


 * I know the cannon size is large. The original entry said the galleon had 10 cannons, but since that's not a multiple of 4, I changed it so that it was. I have never actually pillaged on one since the last modification of cannon counts (when the options to gun with 2 and 6 cannons were removed), so I'm not entirely sure how many cannons it might have. --Thunderbird 15:16, 8 November 2005 (PST)


 * There are 10 cannon stations on a Merchant Galleon (by this, I mean actual places where you could gun, not how many it would take to fill them). So it definitely DOESN'T have 20 cannons. I tried to check by jobbing an alt to the galleon in my crew, but I've found that I can't order to gun on a locked vessel not in my possession. --Thunderbird 15:26, 8 November 2005 (PST)

A merchant galleon can only have 12 guns loaded at once. I just tested this. --Barrister 15:50, 8 November 2005 (PST)

Glad I was able to point out the error. --Sulu 16:15, 9 November 2005 (PST)

Adding a section
Just a suggestion, but perhaps it would be nice to have ram damage numbers added to this section?

I think they're fairly applicable to the ship information, but I guess input is needed first.


 * I agree that ramming information would be useful. Feel free to add it.  --Barrister 23:39, 2 January 2006 (PST)


 * Alright, I added in the information from the ram page, but only part of it. The ram page is somewhat obsolete now, it's possible that a redirect from that page could be done to the ramming section of this page, with the additional information on ramming that was left out inserted. HolyApoc 17:50, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * Hmm, needs clarification. Which ship is dealing damage to which, and what are those damage amounts measured in? --Ihope127 09:02, 5 February 2006 (PST)

Changes
Needs correcting - No new ships should have any game tables. Old ones still will.--Nemesis 15:31, 16 January 2006 (PST)

Category
Should this page have a terminology tag on it? --Fannon 15:02, 8 March 2006 (PST)


 * Sounds good to me. --Yaten talk 15:05, 8 March 2006 (PST)

Ramming Section
I've rephrased it as best I can, but I still think its awkward and could be done better, especially the column heading in the table. Still, it needs to mention somewhere that the Small/Medium/Large headings mean shot sizes, as I was thoroughly confused until I saw the same table on the Sea Battle page. – Covenant7 (t/c) 05:41, 2 June 2006 (PDT)

Reasonable minimum?
When it says a sloop can hold up to 7 pirates... it's right, but not only can you quite easily run a sloop solo with bots (or without if you're called Shuranthae), you probably shouldn't sail it with a full slate, because then you might start spawning brigs. Should we add a "reasonable minimum" column to the ship descriptions, perhaps haromonized with the requirements to influence buoys in blockades so as to avoid theory and NPOV, to clarify this? --Ponytailguy 11:11, 15 June 2006 (PDT)
 * Personally, I think that it's probably better information for the Sloop pillaging guide, but those guides should likely be linked from this page. --AtteSmythe 11:14, 15 June 2006 (PDT)

Ship capacity : Volume vs. Mass
It's been a while since I've worried about filling up a ship, but I noticed that the ship capacity limit is only stated in volume. For shops, I know that mass/weight is the limit. Is it the opposite on ships -- only volume matters? --Behindcurtai 12:35, 30 August 2006 (PDT)
 * I see two columns: one for mass and one for volume. I'm not really sure why you think mass is missing.  --Barrister 01:45, 1 September 2006 (PDT)

Vessel Lists
So, what is the final word on vessel lists on pirate pages? In or out?--Arminius 16:29, 30 December 2006 (PST)

Cutter/Dhow SF max?
I just noticed someone has changed the cutter SF max damage to 7.2 on this page. According to Cutter and Talk:Cutter, however, 7.5 is correct. What gives? -- Thefirstdude (t/c) 22:40, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
 * Oh wow, just noticed that someone had commented on this way back in February. -- Thefirstdude (t/c) 22:53, 12 May 2007 (PDT)


 * Does anyone know? -- Thefirstdude (t/c) 22:00, 25 May 2007 (PDT)
 * Yes; this page is right and the Cutter page was wrong, I've updated to reflect the correct values. See also this forum post about cutter "hit points". Chupchup 10:03, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Thanks so much!!! -- Thefirstdude (t/c) 14:17, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Hold the phone, mates, it looks like all these creeping 7.2s are wrong (along with the whole line of damage numbers) and the error has propogated to Dhow, Sea battle and Cutter and even QuarterMaster! For reference, the old numbers are 7.5, 5, 3.75 SF / 12.5, 8.33, 6.25 Sinking. I'm waiting on confirmation on this in the forums. -- Chupchup 12:45, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

Longship Ram?
Seems the only bit of information missing here is the longship ram damage and the longship rock damage. There's some information that would suggest it does 0.5 scb on a ram, but also one person that contends is does 0.75.

Can someone do some definitive testing, post on the forum, and link to this talk page so we can update? For now I'm using 0.5 for my personal count and it hasn't been wrong yet, but I can't say for sure I've ever had a situation where it would have mattered if it was .5 or .75.

Varys 05:25, 26 December 2007 (PST)

Blockade influence?
There isn't a nice comparison listing of the blockade influence radius and pirate minimums on this page. Having to go to each ship page separately isn't nice. --Behindcurtai 20:07, 31 January 2008 (PST)
 * Influence. --Guppymomma 20:58, 31 January 2008 (PST)

Added a chart to compare influence as well as manpower, firepower, and sinking damage. --Bootlicker 16:51, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Picture update
The picture of ships is missing the longship. And, the baghala looks out of place. --Behindcurtai 20:08, 31 January 2008 (PST)
 * And the Xebec. Coming up on a year that this has been here.--Plng 06:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Xebec
Is it standard to include full details on a page as prominent as this whilst it has not made it to a production ocean... wouldn't it be better to only include production ocean details, and simply have a note at the end of the article noting that the ship is in devlopment on ice, with appropriate linkage?--Therack 22:55, 5 March 2008 (PST)
 * The dhow and baghlah were added here in the same fashion that this ship now is. Personally, I think having it here now would be helpful. --Thunderbird 23:03, 5 March 2008 (PST)

Friendly Fire
I'm trying to find a place to put information about friendly fire and where it applies (blockades, Flotillas) and the fact that it's 50% damage. However, I'm not sure if this should be a subsection in Ship or possibly a new article or something altogether different. Opinions? --Burninat0r 16:48, 12 March 2008 (PDT)


 * I would think having it as part of the Damage subsection would make sense. I wouldn't think there would be enough contents for it to be an entirely new article on it's own. -- Vorky 16:50, 12 March 2008 (PDT)


 * Added a new sub-section to Damage for this. I'm not 100% sure on the BK blockade information (No Friendly Fire), but that is what I was told. Feel free to correct any misinformation. --Burninat0r 17:35, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Stations
I rolled back KonfuZer's addition of the stations to the table. The numbers he used included all the gunning stations even though only a few can be manned at any given time. Thus, the information wasn't terribly useful. --Barrister 23:52, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Actually, the numbers I used for gunners was accurate. I wasn't counting the number of cannons on the ship, but rather the number of guns that could be manned at any given time. For example, four for war brigs, six for frigates--there are far more than that many cannons on the ship, but those are the numbers that can be manned. --Konfuzer 11:14, 14 March 2008
 * Ah, I see what confused me. (Don't ask.)  Your numbers appear to be correct, but I'm not sure how interesting they are since they're just the sum of the next 4 columns (+1 for dnav).  -Barrister 12:23, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
 * It's useful for planning how many people to take on a blockade or atlantis run. ~KonfuZer

Prices
I know prices vary by ocean, and I know that there is a fundamental difference in prices between subscription and doubloon oceans. That being said, should we include a "rough price" anywhere? I know I would have used it when determining what type of ship to build. Jlh0605 14:48, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ship totals
The link for ship totals is broken, but I don't want to delete it because the page might exist. Can anyone link to the true page? Jlh0605 14:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ship totals? --Sagacious (talk) 17:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It was one of the external links that pointed to a blog entry. It's fixed now --Cecidrake 18:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Swabbie numbers
One of the more recent releases changed the number of swabbies you get on swabbie ship transport. You get more on most ships now, but at only 5 poe per swabbie. I think the numbers here are outdated now. Might want to check the individual ship pages too. --selgnij 6:30, 24 April 2009 (PDT)
 * The numbers got updated at Configure voyage - it really just needs someone to propagate them through. --Belthazar451 13:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Done for this page. Checked the individual ships and they have already been done. --Lesleywalker 01:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposed Section for Ship: Storage Capacities
I've got a rather large table here illustrating the storage capacities of each ship with regards to commodities. I am unsure as to whether to add it to the page or not to. The only further optimization that I can see to this table is to classify herbs as light / medium / heavy, but that might make it confusing. If it's too large, I'll be more than happy to make a new article called Storage and drop it there, where it would have the company of tables for shoppes as well. Here's the proposed section:

Storage: In addition to being excellent ships of war, they are also excellent warehouses, especially the Merchant vessels and Grand Frigate. Every pirate needs to hold something aboard a ship at some place in some point of the game. Please note that this table factors the maximum holding capacity for each ship for one particular commodity and does not account for rum or cannonballs should the ship need to be moved. --Plng 18:23, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Midas frigate
I added it, but didn't want to add a column for gold nuggets, as I don't see any other ships using them. --Thunderbird 04:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Changed the newly added gold nuggets column to an "other" column since we keep seeing one-time use commodities in these LE ship recipes. --Thunderbird 02:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If we have an "other" column, is it worth sticking lacquer and tan cloth over there? Since not all ships have it, it'd let us make the table narrower. --Belthazar451 05:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Would there be aby objection to my shifting lacquer and tan cloth into "other" on this article and the ship sidebar? --Belthazar451 01:38, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm neutral on the shift. --Barrister 05:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Ship performance
Since swabbie performance was adjusted, along with the normal output of the typical player, have the performance numbers / swabbies needed for maximum output / time to reach full speed values been checked? --Behindcurtai 17:07, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Ram Damage
Is it yet known if the Junk is medium or large for ramming? Jlh0605 22:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Article naming
It seems all ships in the game have the following two things which we don't reflect in our naming of ship articles: Should we move the ship articles to reflect their in-game version, or is there a good reason to not use the in-game names? --Sagacious (talk) 00:44, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * All names are capitalised
 * Ships of a special class are named as "Some Ship (Special Class)".
 * The in-game text suffers from a lot of overcapitalization, and we already tend to smooth a lot of it over, especially on pirate pages: Look at Faulkston's edits for a lot of changes to "Ljamethyst is a Senior Officer in the Crew Tales from the Deep and a Prince of the Flag Jigsaw Tessellators and holds Legendary standing in Navigation." I don't think there's any harm in keeping the ship names smoothed out like that too. As for limited edition ships, I think it's a good idea to move those. If anything, it eases the sort order and rapid identification of articles to have them all start with the ship type instead of a random class. Chupchup 12:40, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd be okay with having a redirect from "War Brig (Imperial Class)" to "Imperial class war brig". In some tables, it might make sense to use the first type of text.  But, in written sentences, the latter makes far more sense.  I researched the common usage among military ships and "[Foo] class [ship type]" is the common way of writing it.  As Chupchup points out, the game suffers from overcapitalization and this "[Ship type] ([Foo] Class)" format is unworkable in a lot of places.  --Barrister 05:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Redirects it is! --Sagacious (talk) 05:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Dividing construction costs
I think that separating the construction costs of basic unclassed ships from those of the Limited/Special Edition ships would make the table more usable. one could make then columns for how much of each additional labor/good and "paint color/amount"s each costs.Hrengito 02:34, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely clear on how an additional costs table is benificial, besides personal interest. For actual construction it's not terribly great, as you'd have to reference two tables and add the values together to get what the ship requires. Unless you meant two columns - one for required amount and one for difference from the standard - in which case, the table would repidly become unwieldy. I do, however, think that some way to split or otherwise visially differentiate the limited edition ships from the standard ships would be helpful, especially since we're rapidly nearing the point where there are twice as many limited edition ships as standard ones. --Belthazar451 06:11, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps creating a separate page for LE recipes would be good? Either that, or possibly add 2 columns - paint and minerals, which, combined, make up the vast majority of ingredients unique to LE ships.  Jlh0605 00:23, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably the best bet here for anyone with an idea for an overhaul is to make a demonstration version in your user space or the sandbox - much simpler than trying to describe it, and it lets you see if it actually is prettier or more useful or fits in your standard-size monitor. On a side note, Jlh, the "extra" column isn't limited to the limited edition ships - the longship and Arabic ships use it too. --Belthazar451 02:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point, Belthazar. Anyways, I have 2 drafts, found here and here.  The basic difference is whether or not to have a separate table for LE/deisgn ships.  I would personally vote for having 2 separate tables, especially if there will be a lot more LE ships.  There are a lot of empty spaces in the other one (in fact, only 2 ships use all the columns...) .Jlh0605 17:35, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Bit of a bump for timing - since the addition of the Verdant Sloop, I thought a nudge for comments might be appropriate. We now have 21 LE/Design ships, compared to only 12 "standard" ships.  Thoughts? Jlh0605 18:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Of your two proposals, I prefer the second one, with two tables. That said, I'm still unsure about adding more columns, because they're getting pretty narrow as it is - that's why I added the "others" column in the first place, because it let me remove three other columns. The main worry here is the paint column - the column is winding up so narrow that the word "paint" is being pushed to the next line. Pondering if it's worth omitting the "paint", since it's in the header. You may want to look at tweaking the column widths too, because the table now wants to be 1125px wide, while the standard screen width is 755px, so it's squishing the columns on the run. Though, even the table on the ships page is already 925px. On a different note, I'm wondering if it might be worth having a one-cell-row sub-header between each type of ship on the LE table. --Belthazar451 22:17, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The "paint, minerals, others" bits are as nasty in spreadsheets as here(paint needs its own sheet really!). I was going to point out all the relevant differences, but it appears I was the one asking the question! (For reference, the exceptions: Fortune junks don't require additional labor hours (unlike pretty much all LEs), Wondrous Xebecs have basic materials tweaked to fit in a Deluxe SY stall, Phantom Sloops require only basic labor reflecting their decrepit state, and Verdant Cutters require more wood-presumably to build the trees, and Midas GF requires 2.5x doubloons instead of the usual 2x to be a particularly pricy item.) Note that verdant/midas sloops and phantom frigates do not share these design considerations, sadly...also that these exceptions are just enough to require a differences table to span every column but Skilled Labor and thus, not be all that worthwhile.Hrengito 04:17, 2 October 2011 (PDT)

Need information about damage reset
I've been told that, when a damaged ship ports, and remains there, damage is automatically repaired with time. It would be good for the article to confirm this (if true), and to give information about how long the repair takes and whether any player actions will speed or retard it. Gascony 12:23, 28 September 2011 (PDT)
 * It's been added. I also want to add a note about abandonment but I'm not sure where to place it. Chupchup 12:43, 28 September 2011 (PDT)


 * I took the easy way out and added the link under "See Also". That link can be removed when and if someone adds a summary to the article.  Thanks for the information about the damage reset! Gascony 07:32, 30 September 2011 (PDT)

"Dubs" column in "Construction" table
changed column's header from text to image, shortening that column, and letting the "Other" column have more elbow-room. hope that's ok.

if not, would it be ok to label that column as "Dbs." instead? (to give "Other" the breathing space it needed...)

thanks. -- Franklincain 15:40, 11 June 2012 (PDT)
 * I think having just one image looks kinda weird. Maybe "Doubs"? --Belthazar451 01:53, 12 June 2012 (PDT)

Thumbnails?
Any chance we could get thumbnails of all the ships in the table? Pookywb 10:40, 16 August 2012 (PDT)


 * Which table? There's maybe half a dozen tables in this page.  -- Construction; (Storage/Cargo) Capacity; Handling/Performance; Blockade Usage...


 * If you mean the list of all ships and sub-classes that lists all of their construction costs (i.e. this table), I'd have to say no to this, as that table is big enough already, and should remain text-only. The respective image for each ship (main type or variant type) is in the Infobox within its own separate page.


 * -- Franklincain (t/c) 10:50, 16 August 2012 (PDT)

Fanchuan rock damage
Is there a good reason for the rock damages for a fanchuan to be marked as unknown? I can't find anywhere that gives a reason for it being omitted. I'd expect it to be a set of ghastly looking numbers with rounding errors but we already have .333s and .667s up in the table so that can't be it. Does anyone have data on this already? --Youngking822 07:12, 3 July 2013 (PDT)


 * Fixed here, you were right about the ghastly numbers! --Therobotdude 06:29, 17 August 2013 (PDT)

Blockade table width
After a few column width adjustments, the blockade table fits onto the page fine in IE and Chrome (barely), but is still too wide for FF to display without a horizontal scroll bar. While this can be rectified by zooming out, it is not a nice solution. Any ideas about how to reduce the table width further? (the width reduction needed is about the width of the text "Total" in one of the table headings). These are IE 10, FF 20, Chrome 29 I've tested it on. --Therobotdude 05:43, 23 August 2013 (PDT)

Ship indicators
Since the damage meter, the speed meter and the bilge meter are all closely related short articles, what about merging them into this article under a new short section (perhaps called "indicators")? If this succeeds, perhaps there would even be scope for adding some shipboard interfaces (navigation table, a ship's helm, booty chest) into a small section somewhere. Currently the page says a lot about ship types, classes and capabilities, but doesn't go into much detail about what one finds on a ship. --Therobotdude 15:13, 20 September 2013 (PDT)


 * Since these various meters are terms used in-game, we'd still need to have redirects pointing to the relevant section within this article (presuming we merge), with these redirects still having the "Category:Terminology" tags. As long as this is done, I've no objections to this merge. -- Franklincain (t/c) 20:36, 20 September 2013 (PDT)