Talk:Longship

cannons on a longship? 0.o
The ship specs are interesting, 2 shots per side but with small cbs, and the 15-man crew would be nice, but a longship with cannons? Name it something else and I'll buy it, but I can't get past the fact that cannons didn't come about until years and years after the vikings.


 * indeed..this is quite unrealistic,even fer a computer-game,how bout... spears,catapults shooting rocks,or maybe even an over-sized grappling hook! i dont even think the vikings used projectiles while raiding,but i'm sure we can think of something! and indeed... RENAME IT! i love all but the name and cannons thou! :D good job nordenx! ~ Chrishouben


 * FUN > REALISM ...good job OOO, not me I do not work for OOO and I am not responsible for adding this feature into the game (unless you're talking about my portrait background contest entry: Drakkar Knarr, then thank you for the compliment. :) Always keep in mind that: though Vikings sailed centuries earlier before classical pirates, Puzzle Pirates is set in a fantasy game world and does not have to follow historical facts; anything goes! Hence, skellies, zombies, ghost, atlantis, sea monsters, and cannons on viking ships. ~ Nordenx 11.04.07 4:30AM PST

Max Damage
Max damage is <10 small CBs (for SFs)

Well it would be for all frays (Rumble and SF) as the damage count does not change as the fray changes.. while rumble is known to be a bit unreliable (which should've been fixed in today's release).

Also, I show it is 6-7.5 medium cbs to max.

Possibly there's a ~31 sf square for 8 small shots... That would be 9.5 for regular max... Gonna check it to be 100% positive it's NOT 10.5... Furiss 01:53, 9 November 2007 (PST)

Ok there is no difference between 10 and 9.5 in small shots so 9.5 (or 9) is the max. I'll check if 9 is max next time i pilly. For now i leave it at 9.5, cause 10.5 is a definate overshoot. Furiss 18:14, 9 November 2007 (PST)

I show Furiss is correct on small cbs. 06:13, 10 November 2007 (PST)

These numbers cannot be right, the ratios are all off. Med shot is 150% (1.5x) of small and large is 200% (2x) small shot. The numbers for max sf are inconsistent in this matter. As well, the I chose these values because they are mostly whole numbers which fit nicely into the most accurate "meter" - swordfight blocks. small shot dosen't follow the pattern (the med and large are fairly close). If you examine _all_ the other ships, the max sf is 60% of the sink damage. They might have changed this ratio, but I doubt it, esp if someone is claiming that the med and large are around 60% in ratio as well.Fugli 20:54, 10 November 2007 (PST)


 * Yes I know the ratios are not right, but until I confirm that the damage counter is 9.5 - i just won't change them (no point in counting those twice). Of course it's confirmed that it's not more than 9.5 but i still need to check if it's not 9 (that would give pretty even 6 and 4 on the med and large cbs - a lot easier to go with, than a 6.2 making it a crazy dhow 6 shots + ram). I also would like to bring up the issue of dhows and longships which ram for differend damage than half their cball shot. Have that in mind if You happen to count the max for it while sailing a dhow. Furiss 18:09, 11 November 2007 (PST)


 * Here is a table of hit points I have started but not yet linked in. I hope it will help clear up some misconceptions.
 * The presentation uses absolute numbers, rather than the ratios and percentages we normally rely on while calculating battle damage. The sources of confusion are many: the damage meter and playfield obstructions are the same size on all ships, yet they have different underlying numbers! I chose these values because they are whole numbers which fit nicely into the most accurate "meter" - swordfight blocks. Melee maximum is always 60% of the total hit points. While there are four ship classes, there is a higher granularity to collision damage. Not shown is rock damage, which is 10% of total. For a long time, the ram article asserted that this was identical to colliding with a ship. It's not easy to track damage in the heat of battle, but I have been running tests in a controlled environment and I will help confirm the numbers. --Chupchup 03:32, 16 November 2007 (PST)


 * Longship class is definately NOT SMALL. Ramming it with a sloop from the side with a straight move (the longship did not move) DID NOT PUSH IT AWAY. --Furiss 14:15, 18 November 2007 (PST)

Ok as for SF max i've tested 9 scb as the max and it does seem to work. I'll do a third battle to be 100% sure. For now 9.5 scb stands as current, but i will change it as soon as i am 100% sure - i will alter other damages as well (sink max and other cballs). --Furiss 18:05, 21 November 2007 (PST)

I can confirm 9 SCBs maxes (SF) a longship. I shot mine up earlier today and 9 maxed it completely. See discussion below on Size for ramming damage which confirmed the 9.0 number. Wheebiscuit 12:07, 1 December 2007 (PST)


 * Thanks. That's the indpependant confirmation i needed. Max is set as 9.0 final (i know 8.5 doesn't make it). All damages altered to the correct ratios. --Furiss 16:45, 1 December 2007 (PST)

Size?
The longship seems to be a bit confused on the size issue. It appears to be a medium size ship, from its collision mechanics (a forward move into a stationary Longship on a sloop will not move it), however it still only deals .5 scb's of damage to a sloop on a ram.

Ram shows that all medium size ships do 1 scb of damage when they're rammed into. Thoughts?

Varys 21:39, 10 November 2007 (PST)


 * That's not true, and the Ram article does not say that anywhere. A War brig is medium-class, and it deals 2 scbs of damage on ramming. --Chupchup 00:55, 11 November 2007 (PST)

Ummm... Someone is missing the point here. So let me clarify this: the Longship is med-class. And after 1 shot and 2 rams into each other i had exactly 2.5 SF damage. Which concludes that the longship DOES NOT give a 0.5 ram damage, but a 0.75 (in small balls of course). I will be checking that out a few times still, but i am pretty sure about it (plus: i'm believable as the first person to count a more accurate max for it). Furiss 18:04, 11 November 2007 (PST)


 * Interesting. I was just in a battle with me on a sloop vs a brigand longship.  I failed, and got 3 shots into me, plus we rammed each other twice.  We had exactly 4 rows of blocks in the SF, which would mean that the longship does actually deal 0.5scb worth of damage per ram. -- Thefirstdude (t/c) 05:59, 17 November 2007 (PST)

For what it is worth, I took a sloop and a longship out and rammed each other. After 11 rams, the Sloop showed 5.5 lines of damage (so half a line or half a small for each ram) and the Longship showed 3 lines + 4 blocks. So you can use this to calculate size as well as what it takes to SF max a Longship. Doing the math, it comes out to 9.0 SCBs. And yes, I tested that. I shot the LS with 9 SCBs and it was maxed. I put 5 shots into it, and it showed 3 lines plus one block which seems a little light, but it definitely maxed at 9. --Wheebiscuit 12:06, 1 December 2007 (PST)

props
Someone added a drum to the prop list. There is something that looks like a drum at the front of a long boat, but it is not the kind you can buy at a furni, nor is it a prop...as you can't trash it.


 * I don't think there is a drum. If I'm wrong please tell me where about I can find the drum?


 * Front of ship, main deck. Furiss 18:16, 12 November 2007 (PST)

If you are talking about the drum that is past the hold...it's not a drum prop. If we are to use the definition of prop being something that can be trashed when you look at arrange furniture or comes up with the word "prop" or something that you can buy. This would be like saying there are several shields on the sides of the ship, and a dragon head on the front...these aren't props either in the strict definition and therefor drum should be removed? Drackaless 15:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)


 * I vote that the row master's "drum" be removed from the list of "props". It is an aesthetic feature just like the drakkar dragon head or the shields on the side or the oar racks (T-shaped pillar things on board) and it can not be trashed. ~ Nordenx 10:48, 14 November 2007 (PST)

Beacause the ship has a number of esthetic features like none other i suggest adding a list of those - seperate from the prop list. -- Furiss 10:33, 15 November 2007 (PST)


 * Wouldn't it be better as a narrative instead of a list? ~ Nordenx 10:41, 15 November 2007 (PST)
 * A picture is worth a thousand words, and an image of the main deck has already been added. Also, it would be an innovation to describe the rest of the ship, leaving nine other ship articles with work needed (not to mention a few buildings.) Since this feature is still "recently released," and many ships saw cosmetic, even functional, alterations sometime after release, let's fill out the rest of the page first? --Chupchup 23:59, 15 November 2007 (PST)

Deceiving description
Under the pillaging header it states "Some crews also use these ships as trade ships, because they can hold a lot more than the smaller ships." which is an odd statement considering the hold of a sloop is the same size. Runesai 12:12, 26 February 2008 (PST)
 * I'm also going to bring into question the part about barbarians using longships more. Since when does the type of NPPs on the ship dictate have anything to do with the type of ship it is? I added a disputed tag for this and the comment above. --Thunderbird 00:59, 28 February 2008 (PST)

Removed That section completely, Blockade use should also be removed as it's entirely the writers own experience. --Everclearboy